All Are Alike unto God

I am a much different person than I was 10-15 years ago. Now, I have always been a kind person who could befriend and love anyone, even if their beliefs or lifestyles were quite different than mine. That’s something that I have always felt was a gift from God. In fact, some of my most treasured friendships have been with people who were not as accepted for who they were.

HOWEVER, that gift was in its infancy for a long time. I have found in retrospect that love and friendship, while beautiful, aren’t enough on their own. My thoughts in this post are regarding my relationships with members of the LGBTQ+ community specifically. I want to share some stories from my life:

1. When I was in high school, I was not popular, but I was someone that people could generally trust to be kind and encouraging. In the early 2000s, though, people didn’t really talk about homosexuality and thought it was just a choice people sometimes made. I recall at least twice in high school when different teen boys told me they were gay. I am ashamed to say that I did not react with love. No, I laughed it off each time and said that they were just making it up and that nobody was really gay. I didn’t mean any harm, but how harmful my responses must have been!
2. When I worked at the AICPA from 2007-2011, I had several gay and bisexual friends who I loved dearly. They were fun and we would laugh and joke all the time. I felt no fear, no prejudice, or any other negative feeling around them. But, about a year after I left work, there was a bill announced in NC called Amendment 1 that reiterated that marriage is a between a man and a woman only and same-sex marriages could not be performed in the state. So many of my friends from the AICPA were so upset about this, whether they were LGBTQ+ or not. I remember ignoring their concerns and looking for ways to justify this amendment that hurt my friends. I remember finding a quote from the minority whip saying that this amendment doesn’t change anything at all, so why should anyone be upset? I quoted that to my friends and also held very strongly to my religious beliefs surrounding same-sex marriage. Today I found a comment I made on one of my gay friend’s posts about the amendment. I scolded him and said: “…You know I love you, but that was not a classy comment at all. Don’t let anger over political matters cause you to lose respect for and from friends. We all have a right to our political views, and to stand up for them, but let’s not hurt people in the process.” My comment might have been a wise one had I not been hurting people myself. I lost many friends because of how I spoke about this amendment. I didn’t understand why then, but I do now. 
3. Perhaps around the same time (I can’t remember), a friend of mine posted on Facebook about how she went to an event (perhaps a parade or a run) where she and some friends had a sign offering free hugs for LGBTQ+ people. I am ashamed to say that I thought this was wrong and it affected the way I thought about her.
4. In 2014, my brother, Aaron, who came out as gay when he was 17, asked me and other members of the family to watch a documentary called, “For the Bible Tells Me So.” I was touched by it and wrote a response to my brother that I felt was very loving. My conclusion to having this new information, though, was to say that I cared more about his eternal life than his earthly life and had to stand by my religious beliefs rather than his potential happiness.  
5. In 2015, when gay marriage became legal in the US, I respected that gay and lesbian people would be so happy for this change. However, even though I felt it was fair in the past, I had changed my views to being against it since my church taught marriage was between a man and a woman only. Before it even became legalized, I remember being worried about how it would change my life and my kids’ lives in a bad way. I was worried about seeing gay people holding hands all the time or seeing movies with gay characters more often.

Let’s pause for a second. To some reading, you may think that everything I did in these examples was absolutely justified and the right thing to do. It wasn’t my fault in high school. I was just reacting to the knowledge society had at the time. And because of my religious beliefs on gay marriage, all the other things I said and did were also justified…right? Others of you may be horrified why what I said and did, so let’s ask some follow-up questions:

What if in high school, instead of sticking to what I had been taught, I had thanked these young men for their courage, vulnerability, and trust in me? What if I had believed them? What if I had listened and learned from them? What if I had been the friend they had so desperately needed?

What if when Amendment 1 was announced and I heard and saw all the views against it I had opened my ears, mind, and heart and listened to the lived experiences, struggles, and pain that my gay and bisexual friends were feeling? What if instead of scolding my friend, I had cried with him?

What if when my friend posted about giving free hugs, I asked her more about it? What if I had asked her why she felt the need to do it, and how the experience helped her and those she hugged? What if I asked her how I could better show love to those who needed it?

What if when I watched the documentary, I had asked my brother what he was hoping we all learned from it? What if I had asked him what I could do to be a more supportive and loving sister to him? What if I sat down with him and talked to him about how he had been treated as a gay man? What if I had talked to him about his hopes for the future?

And what if, when gay marriage became legal, I had asked my gay friends and my brother how it made them feel and how it would change their lives? What if instead of focusing on my pre-conceived notions of the consequences, that I stopped thinking about myself and looked outward?

I think the letter I wrote to my brother after watching that documentary was mostly good. It had a lot of truths in it that I truly not only believe but have internalized in my heart. But, at the end of the day, I made it seem like my beliefs were superior to his lived experience, whether I said that or not. 

If I am being completely honest too, same-sex marriage being legal has not negatively affected my life or my family’s life at all. We do see more gay couples, and sometimes there are gay characters in shows or movies, but that hasn’t had to be uncomfortable. All my husband and I had to do was have a short conversation with our kids about the fact that there are people in this world who love differently and that we should respect them and love them. That was all it took. It did take years for my husband to be on board with that approach, but it ended up being the right one. I can say my kids are more loving and accepting because we chose not to dehumanize or condemn but rather acknowledge the right of all people to be represented and treated fairly.

A year or so ago, I tried to reach out to the boys from my high school and apologize to them for how I had treated them. I didn’t hear back but it felt good to try. I also reached out and apologized to my gay and bisexual friends from the AICPA who I had hurt because of my behavior during the time of Amendment 1. I heard back from two of them and was so grateful when they forgave me. It lifted a huge weight off my shoulders. Here is part of the message I sent to each of them:

Hello… I know it might seem strange hearing from me after about 12 years, but I felt a strong need to contact you and to offer a sincere and heartfelt apology for the pain and hurt I have caused you. You…were all cherished friends of mine at the AICPA, and in my zeal for defending my faith, I did not put myself in your shoes. I put my religious beliefs above your humanity. I put the pressures and stances of the time above my empathy for you all. At the time, I felt I had to support that amendment, and somehow, I thought I could do that while still loving and supporting my LGBTQ+ friends and family. But because I didn’t recognize the pain that that amendment was causing, I was not loving and supporting you all fully. I justified law instead of mourning with you all…I am doing my best to speak up and to be a better ally of the LGBTQ+ community. I just wanted you to know that. I know that you are a beloved son of God and that He created you the way you are for a wise purpose. I wrote this blog post a couple years ago and thought you might like it: Another Take on “God Doesn’t Make Mistakes” | Making Life a Bliss Complete… I’m so glad that I had the opportunity to work with you and be your friend all those years ago…Once again, I am so sorry for all the hurt I caused you.

One of my friends replied by saying: Thank you! My mom asked me once why I don’t go to church more. I said have you ever had who you are as a person attacked at church? 

I was grateful that he felt comfortable opening up to me right away, and he even asked me to pray for his sick father. 

The other friend replied by saying: Mandy! I’m sincerely happy to hear from you. In fact, just the other day I was wondering about you. I hope all is well. Thank you for your comments. In one way it means lot, in another way I always knew you’d noodle your way round on things. I knew you to be smart and inherently good. I had faith in those things about you. We’re good.

These two men didn’t have to forgive me, but they did, instantly. I don’t know if I deserved that, but I was so grateful to them for seeing good in me. 

I can honestly say that God has been working on my heart for the last several years, and I have been working on becoming an ally, or a “safe person” for the LGBTQ+ community, especially in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This shift in me is why I was so happy to join the planning committee for the first annual Gather Conference Southeast last year along with other very dedicated, passionate, and faithful latter-day saints.

This year, I played a larger role in preparing for the conference. I wrote biweekly newsletters for nearly a year, set up automated emails for everyone who registered, answered emails, oversaw the music, and helped provide ideas and feedback for other parts of the planning. It was a labor of love, and just like last year, my heart was so full, and my tears were wet this last weekend. This year’s conference was even more meaningful to me for two reasons: my son, Casey, was there with me, and so was my brother, Aaron.

I felt prompted to invite Aaron to be a part of the conference in April. My favorite part of the conference last year had been a listening panel where members of the LGBTQ+ community (who also were past or present latter-day saints) answered questions that were pre-submitted by the audience. I remember I cried over and over again listening to the experiences of these unique and beloved children of God. I felt so strongly that my brother’s story and perspectives would be impactful. I also wanted him to be able to meet other LGBTQ+ individuals who also are or had been latter-day saints.

I am so glad that I invited him. Having my brother with me for the potluck dinner the night before and for the conference filled my heart with such joy and gladness. Aaron, Casey, and I had so many deep and thoughtful conversations this past weekend, and I am so grateful for the bond we share.

The conference was an all-day event, and we had many more people than last year. After a welcome, an opening song of “My Heavenly Father Loves Me” and a prayer, we started with the panel discussion this time, and I think that was a beautiful choice. The Spirit was so sweet in the room, and through the words of the panelists answering questions, the audience had the perfect opportunity to develop greater understanding, love, and empathy for the panelists and all others like them in the room.

I loved what Aaron had to say as well. He is so wise, and I love him so much. Many people came up to him throughout the day thanking him for his thoughts, the most poignant being from the philosopher, Gabe Mate, who said in his book, The Myth of Normal, that all people need authenticity and attachment. Aaron shared that we need to be careful of putting anyone in a situation where they have to choose one or the other because both are equally important for well-being.  He also talked about how too many people put the cart before the horse, or their religious beliefs before people. Religion should not block your ability to connect with, or love or have empathy for people. (Can you see in my past experiences how I had been doing that?)

One panelist made an important point that words matter, and we need to be careful what we say. There is most likely at least one or more LGBTQ+ person in each church meeting, and based on your words, they can tell if you are a safe person or not. Other panelists expressed that the most important words when someone comes out, such as a child to a parent, are, “I love you and tell me more.” Aaron even said just to be honest if you don’t know what to say and tell the person you love them and you need some time to process before speaking further.

Perhaps the most important reminder that I took from the panel discussion is that Jesus atoned for all of us. He felt every pain, sin, heartache, and struggle any of us will ever experience. This means that He felt what it was like to be gay, bisexual, transgender, nonbinary, asexual, etc. Thus, He is the perfect advocate for them, and He is with them, caring for them throughout their lives, just like He is for anybody else.

We took a break for lunch, and it was so nice to chat with Aaron and Casey about their reactions to the panel. Then we went to classes. There were three choices for each class session. Casey, Aaron, and I all went to a class which was meant to be an LGBTQ+ meet and greet. We spent time doing anonymous polls from our phones to get to know each other better as well as learning about LGBTQ+ members of our church from history. I think the most impactful part of that class was when we split up into three groups based on identity and discussed what we wished others knew about us. Aaron was able to be in a group with other gay men, and Casey and I were in a group of allies.

The old Mandy would be uncomfortable at the idea of attending a Gather Conference, and the idea of being an ally. Why? Well, it would likely be fear, fear that if I love this community too much, it might hurt my testimony or my convictions to keep God’s commandments. I imagine that many people who aren’t ready to attend a conference like this feel the same way.

But Mandy the Ally would say that “perfect love casteth out fear (1 John 4:18).” I fully recognize my lack of empathy in years past which prevented me from truly loving and supporting my LGBTQ+ friends and family the way they needed to be loved and supported.  My testimony of Jesus Christ and His love for all of God’s children is more manifest now than any other time in my life. I am closer to God and the Holy Ghost than I have ever been, and it’s because I have worked hard to develop the pure love of Christ. I used to subconsciously see LGBTQ+ individuals as people unworthy of (or unable to have) as much love and blessings, and because of that, I felt fear and discomfort. But when I finally desired to see them as God sees them and love them the way God loves them, everything changed.

Being an ally is so needed, especially in the Church, where people still say insensitive things and do not consider how much their words and attitudes matter. Because of my change of heart, I am able to consider how certain topics are difficult, and I try much harder to be sensitive to the feelings of others. I am saddened that LGBTQ+ individuals are often scared to come out because they don’t know if people will turn against them, which is what happened to my brother. I want anyone in my congregation to know that if they are LGBTQ+, they have a friend in me. They can sit with me; they can talk with me; they can share anything with me, and I will love them just as much as I loved them before, without judgment.

After the first class, I went to a class led by Lindsey Sais, called “Every Moment is Grace: Redemption and Faith is Found Within the Darkness.” Lindsey was a part of the panel discussion and also in the meet and greet class last year. I loved her words last year and was probably more touched by her story and testimony than anyone else’s. I really wanted her to come back, and I am so glad she did. I introduced her to the class, and then she proceeded to tell her story. She talked for a long time with her soft-spoken, thoughtful tone. Her story was very heavy, from realizing she was gay after being married to a man, to drug and alcohol addictions, to relapse after relapse, to jail time, to more relapse. You could hear a pin drop as she spoke, and just when I thought her story couldn’t get any darker, she introduced the light. Her testimony is undeniable. 

Lindsey was excommunicated from the Church for being in a same-sex marriage in the recent past, but she shared that her membership status in the Church does not affect her worth or her relationship with Christ. She testified that God is in the details of all of us. She asked us not to hide from God, like Adam and Eve hid their nakedness. She said to bear all to Him so that He can help you. In her story, she talked about being in rehab for the last time and being in the withdrawal room, just curled up on the bed wishing she could go to sleep and not wake up. She shared her testimony that she has since realized that Jesus was lying next to her during those moments when she just wanted to wither away. He saved her.

I think every person in that class was filled with the love of God. So many of us were crying. After Lindsey concluded her story, several of us asked her questions. One person said that she was so glad Lindsey is alive. I felt that so much. There is something remarkable and extraordinary about Lindsey Sais. I asked if she had ever talked to her parents about how they were able to stick by her through her addictions and relapses. She said they had talked about it a lot, and she expressed such appreciation for her parents, especially her mom, Rebecca, who had travelled with her to the conference. After the class was over, I felt like I didn’t want to leave. I watched as so many people in the class just hugged her. Lindsey is so humble. Her eyes filled with tears every time someone said a kind word to her. I just felt so much love for her.

I softly reminded everyone and myself that it was time for dinner break. Slowly, we all got up and started to leave, with some staying back to hug and talk to Lindsey. I met up with Aaron and Casey again, and for a while people talked to each other about their thoughts from the classes they had just attended. Finally, the presenters and conference planners sat down together for a catered dinner. I was so happy that Lindsey and her mother sat down at our table. I just can’t describe how much love I felt for both of them. My testimony of God’s love for each and every one of us grew from Lindsey’s class and then my further interaction with her and her mother. I think of Lindsey’s life and how much darkness was in it. Most of us would abandon or give up on someone with a major alcohol and drug addiction who relapsed over and over, and who went to jail for stealing money to buy drugs. But, seeing Lindsey in her current state, as a humble, loving, wise woman, I could see perfectly how nobody can descend lower than the Savior and that He is there to make each of us strong. He never leaves us, even if we don’t feel Him near. I cherish the conversations I had during the dinner break with Lindsey and her mom, Casey and Aaron, and others, including Ben Schilaty, who would be our keynote speaker.

After the dinner break, everyone gathered for Ben’s address. First, Aaron and I sang a musical number called “All Are Alike unto God,” which was written for the original Gather Conference in Provo, UT. Meghan Decker and Janice Kapp Perry wrote this beautiful song, with the title based on 2 Nephi 26:33. Meghan is a lesbian latter-day saint and Janice’s son, Steven, is a gay latter-day saint.

I don’t have a copy of us singing it, but I felt the Holy Ghost surrounding us as we sang, and I hope that the words brought peace, hope, and love to those listening. I highly recommend that everyone read the words and listen to it. It is so powerful.

Next, it was time for Ben Schilaty, a prominent gay latter-day saint, to offer the keynote address. From my interactions with Ben on Friday at the potluck and then at the conference on Saturday, he is a very high-energy, funny, social, sarcastic, and very tall man who also has so many nuggets of wisdom to share from his life experience. He spoke of the three things a plant needs to grow: soil, sun, and water. Depending on the plant and its environment, it will need different amounts of each. There is no one-size fits all care for a plant, nor is there for any of us. What works for one person may not work for someone else. He spent a lot of time talking about the stages of coming out. I had never heard this before, and it helped me with my empathy towards how an LGBTQ+ person might be feeling or struggling with depending on where they are in their journey. I loved the stories he shared about his own life as well. Ben mentioned that one comment (among many others) that LGBTQ+ church members often hear from other church members is, “It will all be resolved in the next life.” This comment can be very damaging because it can cause an LGBTQ+ individual (especially one in the early stages of coming out) to think that maybe they should just shorten their earthly life and move to the next one now. The last thing Ben made sure to say is that his story is his own. We should not impose his story onto anyone else. We must let our LGBTQ+ loved ones have their own journey to find their identity and their place. They will receive revelation for their own lives just as he has. 

After his presentation, Ben took some questions from the audience. Some people were curious what to do about bias and bigotry towards the LGBTQ+ community. He said that the answer to bias and bigotry is proximity. Being around members of the community and listening to them without judgment helps so much. He said that when they know better, they will do better. He also expressed that the response to bias and bigotry is kindness. He gave the example from The Book of Mormon when King Lamoni’s father sees King Lamoni with Ammon and is very angry. The end of that story was Ammon having mercy on the father, showing care and love for his friend, King Lamoni, thus opening the father’s heart to hearing the gospel preached by Ammon’s brother, Aaron. Had Ammon been cruel and everything King Lamoni’s father assumed about Nephites, he likely would never have listened to the words of a Nephite and would never have accepted the gospel of Christ. Our words and actions matter. 

The conference concluded with everyone singing “I’ll Walk with You,” and a prayer. The prayer was similar to last year where all LGBTQ+ individuals who were comfortable stood together in a circle and then everyone else in the audience encircled them so they could feel our love and support.

Just like last year, it was so hard to leave. So many people wanted to keep talking to each other. I even had someone come up to me saying that she wanted to try to start a Gather Conference in her area. I love that. Anyone who comes to one of these conferences with a heart, mind, and soul ready to learn and grow to be more like Christ, will be able to do so. I testify of that. I said last year that the conference was more like Zion than any other thing I had ever been a part of. I have to say the same thing this year. I have felt the Holy Ghost speak to me in my life more times than I can count, and being with people who have one heart and one mind brings the Spirit even closer.

Casey shared his thoughts with me about the conference, and what stood out to him the most was the love and understanding everyone showed to each other. He said he saw a wonderful example of what true charity and compassion look like. I’m so glad he felt what I, and so many others did. 

I feel with all my heart that the Savior has given me this mission: to help the LGBTQ+ community in the Church (and outside of it) feel welcomed, loved, supported, and safe; and to help members of the Church let go of their apprehension, fear, and biases, and instead see and love these unique and beautiful individuals as the children of God they are. As I follow this mission faithfully, I know that the Lord will continue to bless my life and the lives of my family and friends. 

Just know that if you are reading this and you aren’t there yet, it’s okay. It took me a long time. In years past, the idea of a Gather Conference would have worried me and made me very uncomfortable. I would personally never choose to go back to that time, but I definitely understand. However, let us not stay where we are. I invite you to prayerfully read this talk. It may help: “Ye Are My Friends.”

I am here to talk to anybody who has questions, and I am here to love and support anyone who has been nervous or afraid to come out. I will not judge. I will only listen, learn, and love.

**You can learn more about the Gather Conference Southeast and sign up for the newsletter here.